An announcement about the method and agenda of Property Tribes ...

[nick tadd]

There seems to be some misinterpretation of content, method and agenda on Property Tribes.

Just to clarify: Ref: videos, and indeed the written word.

Producing these videos, of which there are many more to come - and I mean many, has nothing to do with any individual and/or businesses. It never has and it never will be.

PT is here to allow people to have an opinion and share thoughts in an independent and respectful environment.   PT TV is just an extension of that method... call it a video forum if you will. But I cannot entertain any vindictive use of the forum to make anything personal. It is about method, not specific people and businesses.

And therefore the content should be about method, not people and businesses.

There are many ways of doing "creative finance". This term does not have to be synonymous with fraud. There are many ways of doing NMD, and this term does not have to be synonymous with fraud.

But that's neither here nor there as we all know this. What we all desire is a fair understanding of the whole market - and when I say whole market I mean whole market, not just finance .. everything ... from NMD, creative finance through to refurbishments - and to do that I will encourage all forms of debate whether that be in words or video (to encourage words).

It would be a debacle to see silly debates on "my handy man is a better painter than your's"! However, a debate on speed and efficiency and cost effectiveness of refurbishment would be valuable and worth sharing on.

When it comes to debate, focussing on method is far more constructive that focussing on people or any kind of "bashing".   

I cannot protect newbies. I also cannot protect experienced landlords, non of us can. People will do what they want - each of us must make our own choices in life.

It is also not our intention to stop, interfere, or discredit anyone's business.

We are living in a world being dominated by the web. I like the web. I welcome its transparency.  I like its method, its speed, its way of organising us.

Above all, I like the way it helps us share, learn and connect.  It is good for humanity.

That is my agenda, it always has been, since we started Property Tribes, and it has nothing to do with any individual/s and/or businesses.

My agenda is to make good use of this facility called the web and use it to its best advantage.  It would be a shame to see it stoop to people bashing.  After all Tim Berners Lee did not invent it for that.

Please do ask any questions if you require further clarity.

N

[Ant Lyons]

I for one would really like to see a far fewer threads on No Money Down. I wonder if it's putting anybody else off. I don't feel inclined to join any of the discussions on NMD principally because I don't feel that the conversations are going anywhere.

Those that want to do NMD will, those that don't will not.

I will start another thread in a minute but can't help but feel that it will end up spiralling into an NMD debate again - hope not.

Ant

[John Paul]

I agree Ant

Everyone has their own opinion about NMD, whether its right or wrong. i do feel that it will be putting off the newbies and as an experienced investor i groan everytime i log on to see pretty much every thread is about NMD and ethics and proffesionalism blah blah blah. I appreciate its extremely important in business but i dont want it rammed down my throat everytime i switch my pc on

Each forum is known for different things

Property tycoon - Some good debates, a few extremely clever and savvy investors and generally nice people
Singing pig - pretty much full of shit in my opinion, and some complete pratts (V doesnt like swearing so ill be polite)
Property Tribes (my fav) some great debates, very knowledgable people, lots of threads,

Lets not let this forum be most commonly known as anti NMD. People have made their point, lets respect it and move on. i appreciate its very "NOW" but like Ant i know for certain its putting people off as i have spoken to them about it

My two penneth

JP

[Pat Flatley]

Very well put Nick.. and I think it's good that you've stated "I cannot protect newbies" and "People will do what they want - each of us must make our own choices in life."

This is a great forum and I think most enjoy it's transparency, but I agree with Ant as the recent nmd thing has started to get really tiresome now. I don't see any attraction in lining up a pile of ammo, inviting someone in to get shot down in flames and then wondering why they don't take the bait.

Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing whatever PT TV brings our way ;O)

[Vanessa]

Thanks for the comments guys.

In light of Nick's announcement above, I hope it would never be the case of PT being the "anti" anything. I don't think we could have made our agenda clearer that we are just interested in sharing and learning and method and, as a result of transparent discussions, that people will make their own minds up. We all have our own property journeys to take and our own personal property choices to make. That is respected unconditionally.

Topics that are of interest to people gain traction. Those that aren't disappear off the front page quickly. On the web, people pay or vote with their attention, or not, as the case may be.

Our agenda is never to try and "control" what people want to talk about. Perhaps that is the very reason why there is so much NMD discussion here?

If the community does not want to talk about any particular subject then it will not gain traction.

The community will decide the topics of interest, not myself or Nick. That is why we have constantly asked for people to volunteer topics that they would like to see covered by the videos, and people they would like to see interviewed.

Our most recent video was an Investor interview with John Mulcahy, a serial investor from up North. My most recent discussion was creating the ultimate spreadsheet for refurbishment.

Those of us that want to move on, will. Those that don't, won't. People don't like being controlled but overall I have the belief that the community will decide and the discussions that gain traction will be a result of that and the fact that these are the topics that the community is interested in.

[Vanessa]

Pat, I've certainly been shot down in flames on Singing Pig (and other forums) many, many, times for challenging the status quo and the get rich quick dream... as you know when you kindly came to my defence again our friend the "taxi man". Yes, it would have been easy to quote one troll and "run back to my own cozy forum" but I have toughed it out in the face of intense personal abuse because my agenda is transparent and authentic and stands up to intense scrutiny and I can therefore take the flack.

[John Paul]

I agree V that people will talk about what is closest to them, all i am saying is that its the same old people posting on here, not very many newbies and the reason may well be the strong thoughts and feelings that keep getting expressed on the NMD thread.

i have had a discussion with one of our LL that posts on PT and singing pig, but will not post here as he buys NMD and feels that this forum is extremely anti NMD (which no one can deny) i have told him what a nice bunch we all are :)

JP

[nick tadd]

Don't let it spiral.

Although there is a fine line between a "flow of a conversation" and "hijacking" a thread, if someone seems to have an agenda to twist the "flow of debate" into something else, ask them to start another thread.

N

Ant Lyons said:

I for one would really like to see a far fewer threads on No Money Down. I wonder if it's putting anybody else off. I don't feel inclined to join any of the discussions on NMD principally because I don't feel that the conversations are going anywhere.

Those that want to do NMD will, those that don't will not.

I will start another thread in a minute but can't help but feel that it will end up spiralling into an NMD debate again - hope not.

Ant

[JOANNA CAROLINE]

I have to agree with you John, taking an overview PT comes across as obsessively anti NMD and the intensity makes me curious as to the agenda. Method and learning on this topic was overdone long ago
All I can think of is passion for protecting novice buyers from walking into something they don't understand.
If that's not the reason, all that's left is well, obsession or an undeclared agenda.




John Paul said:

I agree V that people will talk about what is closest to them, all i am saying is that its the same old people posting on here, not very many newbies and the reason may well be the strong thoughts and feelings that keep getting expressed on the NMD thread.

i have had a discussion with one of our LL that posts on PT and singing pig, but will not post here as he buys NMD and feels that this forum is extremely anti NMD (which no one can deny) i have told him what a nice bunch we all are :)

JP

[nick tadd]

JP I think there is a certain sense of irony as no one here is anti NMD, well I'm not.

"NMD" as with "Social Media" is a convenient term that is used as a "cover all" title. Unfortunately as with Social Media, keeping it a "cover all" title will cause confusion.

The standard response I get in my business (as most of you know I work on/in the web) to "Social Media" is - "Oh yes I'm on facebook". Social Media is not about facebook, SM has been around for tens of thousands of years.

NMD is nothing to do with fraud. It's just a title thats become synonymous with it - and I for one would like to see and end to that.

But as I said at the start of this thread, I don't just want to learn about NMD it has to be all the other facets to property investing too.

N

[Rob Hubbard]

The assertion that this forum is anti NMD ie 'grey areas', (leave it at that) is a valid comment. Imho it is also correct as much of the content, especially recent content relates to this area.

However, part of the focus on 'transparency' and taking a more holistic view should be that there should be a much, much wider range of topics posted up. I for one may be guilty of being too insular? I would welcome others comments on that question. I am one of the most prolific posters on here but am I stuck in a rut?

A broad subject range would act to dilute subjects such as NMD without affecting the credibility of the debate. By diluting some of the threads I think that more members would contribute, more of the lurkers would cease to lurk and become active and the organic growth could and will be massive.

On a broader note, there is room for more than one property forum on the web, theres room for more than two, three or four. Whilst I agree with JP's comments to a degree, its down to you and I as the members of the various forums to ensure that the content on there is what other people want to read about and share. The community own and police the community, thats the attractive uniqueness of the web imho.

So, to recap, lets not be dull, lets not be know for anti this, pro-him (or him) and lets talk, share and encourage. If you don't want to post yourself please feel free to PM, email, call me with a suggestion and I'll do some research and start a thread.

Recent events over last weekend, this week can be used to push on to a new level.

Rob

Property Consultant, Wakefield, West Yorkshire
E: [e-mail], P: 07960 753550 T:@walkerfox

[Pat Flatley]

As has been said many times most forums are a bit like being down the pub (so I like that!). More often than not we engage with those we know and/or feel most comfortable with. I wouldn't go and sit at a table full of trouble-makers (I'd be sat there already lol) but neither would I want to sit next to someone and listen to them repeating the same thing over and over again each time someone new walks in.

If I saw a nice lady getting grief of course I'd come to her rescue.. but then I'd take her to one side and say something like "how many times do I have to tell you not to speak to those type of people"!!!

John Pauls' forum comparisons are just about spot on and I'm sure if we all focus on what we're doing (as opposed to what everyone else is getting up to) we'll have a great time watching PT TV here in the "Tribal Tavern"

[nick tadd]

I like that "watching TV down the Tribal Tavern".

N

Pat Flatley said:

As has been said many times most forums are a bit like being down the pub (so I like that!). More often than not we engage with those we know and/or feel most comfortable with. I wouldn't go and sit at a table full of trouble-makers (I'd be sat there already lol) but neither would I want to sit next to someone and listen to them repeating the same thing over and over again each time someone new walks in.

If I saw a nice lady getting grief of course I'd come to her rescue.. but then I'd take her to one side and say something like "how many times do I have to tell you not to speak to those type of people"!!!

John Pauls' forum comparisons are just about spot on and I'm sure if we all focus on what we're doing (as opposed to what everyone else is getting up to) we'll have a great time watching PT TV here in the "Tribal Tavern"